Transport Minister Steven Joyce refused to commit support today for the CBD rail loop saying he would have to await the business case which will be with him before Christmas.
In parliament, the minister said he needed facts before he could be convinced of the expenditure involved for such a loop.
“I am a bit old-fashioned in this regard, because I like to know a number of things before embarking on billion-dollar projects. The first would be a business case on the likely operation of that central business district rail link.
“At the moment a business case is being prepared for all stakeholders. A study team is working on rail-tunnel route alignment and station locations. The team is undertaking costing work, assessing the phasing and timing of possible constructions, analysing the traditional transport benefits and wider benefits, and analysing alternatives.
“Those are all important things we do before embarking on such a project.”
To a question from Labour’s Darren Hughes about the rail loop versus the Puhoi road plan, he said:
“I can tell exactly how many people travel on the road north of Pūhoi today. The conjecture as to who would use a central business district rail loop is premature.”
Asked if he would prioritise the Auckland central business district rail loop as least as highly as the Pūhoi to Wellsford motorway, Mr Joyce said that “the merits of bringing a three-lane highway to a screaming halt at Pūhoi in a one-lane road, in a paddock somewhere just out of Pūhoi, is the sort of transport policy that the previous Government came up with; not the current one.”
Yesterday, the Greens gathered both right and left local body politicians and Labour’s Mt Albert MP David Shearer together to launch a petition and campaign to fast track a CBD loop.
It’s a project supported by leading supercouncil mayoral candidates, Auckland’s John Banks and Manukau’s Len Brown, the latter attending the launch.
So in Parliament, Green’s Gareth Hughes asked Mr Joyce if he agreed with John Banks’ recent opinion piece supporting the central business district rail loop, by arguing that “rail is the most effective and efficient way of providing for Auckland’s growth in travel demand?”
Mr Joyce replied: “I almost agree with his worship the mayor. I would insert the words “one of”: that is, rail is one of the most effective and efficient ways of providing for Auckland’s growth in travel demand. My strong view is that the way we will solve Auckland’s transport problems as that city grows is to have all the modes.”
Greens MP Keith Locke launching the Fast Track CBD campaign
Mr Joyce continued his current mantra that “about 85 percent of trips to and from work each day, according to the last census, are made by road, and about 1 percent by rail”, adding “I am confident rail has grown since then, but I still think it has a fair way to go before it will match the highway contribution.”
He said that once a business case was done, he would need to look at then projected revenues and projected passenger numbers and need an operating budget.
“All these were things that the previous Government’s members did not trouble themselves with too much when they spent taxpayers’ money.”
Here are today’s exchanges in context:
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59 Responses to “Joyce On CBD Loop”
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- Joyce On CBD Loop « Auckland Infratructure - [...] Motorway, Trains by Admin — Leave a comment 30/07/2010 Interesting Opinion piece about Joyce On CBD ...
Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
“you breathless Joyce supporters” and “I call the panting like I hear it, Bill”
I believe we’re sensing the hostilities of a person wanting to wave the red flag of war, aren’t we? Sacha not all of us are entirely Anti-Joyce and far-left ideologes, everyone on here are making their views known either way, not one way, as seen from above. Expressing ourselves, however we like is our democratic right.
Think about that.
Sacha – have to say I love your determination and persistence, now lets get some facts out of you. What projects have come through that were not fast tracked by this government, remembering these projects were in the works for decades, the last government did not create them at all. You say investment in broadband and education would be better, funny it’s this government that has got the ball rolling on a broadband scheme, and education well you can blame labour for the hole we are in because of NCEA. Nice to see this government is putting measure to solve this, so what I’m saying is you argument is not standing up here.
Roading creates very few jobs per dollar – were do you get these ideas from? are you talking directly or indirectly? and are you able to give examples? – to me the only case you might have with that claim is long term employment.
jarbury – please note first that do respect you and your comments and do agree with much of what you say, however I do believe that there was more than just the change to the funding arrangements of transport, for the current “gets stuff done” attitude being shown from this government. I do believe that they need credit for this, as I say I don’t necessary agree with the priorities of these projects, but I do agree they need to be completed at some stage.
“Joyce certainly “gets stuff done”, but that’s only because he has access to a huge amount of funding, through petrol taxes, road-user charges and so forth. It was actually the previous government that changed the legislation to ensure that all money raised from transport was spent on transport” – Yes we do need to give the previous government some credit for this, but do not forget that it was this government that cut allot of the red tape bs that has been prolonging the construction progress of these projects, and it’s this government that are pushing forward with the projects, the Labour party also had the money, however failed to use it.
No doubt the nasty people here are the types I have noted on the campaign for better transport forum – sycophantic hotheads who shoot at anyone who travels by car.
Please take your immature comments to some other transport blog while we discuss the future of NZ and what is best for it, especially Northland.
I 100% support the Puhoi project. It is the right time and the right place for some action on improving this link and am thrilled we at last have a transport minister who gets things done, unlike the dithering Labour ministers who could never make a decision.
Back to the Puhoi to Wellsford debate.
I agree this is part of the way to boost the North.
But there needs to be a lot more done.
The social problems there as discussed are immense and there is little hope for too many of the region’s young drifters.
Maybe some of them could be used on the building of the road to give them employment and some purpose in life.
The government could stipulate only those in Northland are employed on the job.
Anyone who wants the facts about this should spend some time reading here and on Joshua Arbury’s transportblog. Then come back and ask informed questions.
The ignorant politicised stuff about broadband, NCEA and so forth I’m not going to respond to. Nor the accusations that getting annoyed with easily correctible lying makes me immature or that failing to kiss arse means I’m some sort of loony activist.
As someone who has been involved in the freight industry for a long time, it is obvious many of those commenting here do not run their own business.
NZ is a very expensive and difficult country to do business in because of the geography.
To get your goods into shops in Kaikohe and Gore is an expensive frustrating and time consuming exercise including getting them across a rough stretch of land between the main islands.
But this is the backbone of our economy.
It was impossible to get this through to Labour people who got excited about the arts and social issues but rolled their eyes when you dealt with business problems because they came from an academic background.
Bad tempered Cullen wasn’t much better as the keeper of the money.
This is such a breath of fresh air to have a business orientated government which understands that to get goods to shops through the north, you need to move the freight.
Joyce is National’s best minister and deserves recognition as such.
Has anyone else actually read the business case for the Puhoi-Wellsford Road? It’s exceedingly dodgy, with the benefits only adding up to around $530 million, even though the most common cost for the project that is mentioned is around $1.6 billion. While a cost-benefit ratio of 0.8 is often bandied about, I wonder whether the real figure is around 0.3.
More detail here: http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/07/17/holiday-highway-the-dodgy-business-case/
Joshua, you say ““His crowning new achievement thus far has been the Puhoi SH1 project” – Nice to see you are talking for other people, but I would put Vic park, Waterview Tunnel when it occurs and the National Integrated Ticketing Standards all above the Puhoi SH1 project as crowning Achievements.”
The only one of those that was entirely Joyce’s doing is the SH1 extension. All of the others, every single one, originated under Labour. The Waterview link, Vic Park, integrated ticketing, all of them pre-date November 2008. The SH1 extension is the only thing that Joyce has come up with entirely absent of work done by the last Labour Government. It really is his crowning achievement, but do feel free to keep on talking up the completion of all those other multi-year projects as though Joyce did anything more than sign cheques (if that). By that token, if a Labour government is in charge in the unfortunate event that the SH1 extension Joyce envisages is completed I fully expect the Minister of Transport at the time to take full credit for it.
Want to improve the economy of Northland? Fix the rail line, double-track it, and get some heavy industry going along its path. Get the Marsden Point link built. Rail beats road hands-down for volume and price of freight carriage, but all the Joyce cheerleaders are chanting from the “If it’s not road, it’s not real transport” hymn book. The rail line is already designated, and already halfway there. It needs work, and it needs to be double-tracked (which can be done separately), but it’ll cost a hell of a lot less to remedy its failings and get it to a state where it can carry significant volumes of freight, than the Holiday Highway. It’ll also be ready a whole heck of a lot sooner than twenty-twenty-something, which is about the best estimate for completion of the SH1 extension, and it won’t have to destroy the economies of towns like Warkworth due to being built as a bypass. Everyone wins.
“karl – perhaps thats why Public Transport advocates are not listened to by any government in power, and perhaps thats why we are in the situation we are in now, giving the lack of balanced funding.”
What? Because we are ANGRY that public transport, despite copious evidence to the contrary, is treated like it was some sort of “money down the drain” exercise, and simply ignored by this government whenever it gets away with it?
You sound like a US political spinmeister who talks a lot about the “anger” of his opponents – as if a) that anger was something alien to human experience, something evil, and b) as if it didn’t have a lot of reasons.
“How can you take people such as yourself seriously, unfortunately with comments like that you lose all creditability.”
In the eyes of people who have made up their minds already? Sure. But that is always the case.
And the heat of a conversation is always tempered by both sides.
“Give some respect and you shall receive, enough said, I truly feel sorry for you to be in such a negative state of mind. I do agree with your first comment, however attacking people who have done allot of good, is not helping. Almost a good post.”
I have always tried to avoid “ad hominem” name-calling. However, I will always oppose bad decisions, and yes – do so to the level of calling someone a fool for making them. I am not going to convince Steven Joyce, but I do believe that others may become aware of his faults if someone bluntly states them. If that insults him or those who think he’s the greatest minister in decades, that is not my problem.
Your praise, by the way, is VERY faint. Let’s stick to the issues, rather than discuss metaphysics and politeness. Sticking to the issues IS the politest course.